“Unfortunately, we are just human...”

Sophia: We certainly do compliment each others' work. Your piece is one of the reasons I believe the belief system is crucial. This type of examination can get our minds or REASON right. I say `right' in all its infinity. And you're right you get what you focus on.

Sophia: You raised some interesting ideas I intend to explore in the future in your comments for me. It's like you know where I'm going before I get there. Your comments left on the relationship guy's blog were inciteful. Before I ever married I knew my concern was more for having a great relationship with my mate than even having children. My relationship lasted 15 years with 1 son, but I noticed in that relationship that the woman you have before child birth is totally different from the one after. When our relationship ended, I promised myself I would watch the two types of women. The women I dated with children, I rightfully came after the children. Women I dated without children gave me the one on one I enjoy in a relationship. Where would you have put your chips if you were me?

Capt, I reflect what I feel, sparked in me, in that way I am much like an oracle ;]

You touch on what I consider one of the ironies of life. Children would like nothing more than for their parents to have a loving one on one relationship, but children demands all the energy and attention that parents have, and as a result the relationship that gave birth to them gets neglected. Now with both spouces working, how much time is there to futher their relationship?

If you want a truly one on one, intimate relationship, from what I can see, it is not possible with young children, unless you have an army of nannies, and maids. Or else you have to wait until the children have grown up, and flown the nest. A San tale, "The man with the Full Moon on his Chest," illustrates this only too clearly to me; (This is just the beginning of a very tragic story)

There once was a man. His name was Xa-xeib. He had a fullmoon on his chest.

He also had a wife. She was very beautiful.

The two of them were as if one person. Where he walked, there she walked too. There were not two foot paths to their hut. At night when the others were already asleep, the two played in the bright light that shone from his chest. The night was theirs. They never became tired.

But as her months became shorter, she could no longer walk the veldt with him. For the first few days he did not wander far. He found no pleasure in walking their old paths alone. With the days he had to walk further and further, for his wife wanted honey, then eland marrow.

So he arrives at one day at a rocky ridge ( bergkrans), where he sees bees flying against the midday sun.

But there was another who also saw the bees against the midday sun. It was not a honeybird, nor a honeybadger.

It was a woman.

The first afternoon he left her only one small cake of honey.

The next day he was there earlier…to take out more honey.

She was there too. This time he gave her two honey cakes.

The next day he left earlier…and the whole way he was argued with himself. She was not there, but there were fresh footprints. His heart said to him he must go and look to see whether she is not trying to show him a new nest with her fresh footprints.

His head turned, and his eyes looked to the path that was behind him..

His heart won.

He found her in the bush that was denser than it was at the honey nest.

They stayed till late together ... because he had the fullmoon on his chest.

When he arrived at home that night, his wife cried a lot. It was dark in her house. There were clouds covering the moon. A woman sometimes knows without having seen .

That night he did not sleep.

The next morning he told his wife that he would only look for food on their old paths. At first he did only look for food near the hut. But when there were more and more trees between him and the house he did not look back so often.

Then his heart won again and he left for the bushes denser than the honey ridge.

Far behind him at the home where previously there was only one foot path, she that must become mother, waited and waited. Only when the evening breeze blew colder and colder, did she go inside and tied the door from the inside. She did not want the owls and the wolves to see her tears ...

An ancient tale, but one that relects a struugle often repeated, that between duty and romantic love. Children do change a relationship. Duty walks with heavy feet. But I must ask, is there not another way?

Sophia: What a beautiful response. Your stories are full of silent knowledge. That is quite a dilemma with respect to relationships and children. The solution for me has been to have the one on one. Fortunately I attracted a woman who compliments me without being like me. She has her own direction in life. She heads the Women, Infants & Children's Program in New York City. After a two year examination of my beliefs when my marriage ended, our relationship came into being. No marriage,no children. But it's been good and mutually supportive.

Thank you Capt. It must have been hard for you. I am glad it resolved so well for you. I think the area of romantic love, more than any other area, contains life's greatest paradox, one I must admit, has confounded me to date, the more I have experienced, the more I have read, the more I have seen, the more I feel there is still hidden something, a piece of the puzzle, have still not revealed itself.

Sophia: Like everything, relationships are like onions where you peel off one level to reveal another. Even the amount you skin has levels. So there probably is much more to be revealed. But I think the major revelation comes from self. It would be maintaining a contradiction of a one on one relationship that may encompass two, three, four,etc. other people. Where the individuals my share some economic links but are individually independent. Here contradiction is different from conflicting. Like `liberal conservative or conservative liberal'. It compensates for growth, but with discretion.

Capt, thank you for your patient, listening to my barrage of questions, very few would. I do deeply appreciate it. It serves as a mirror for me. Yes, it is like the peeling of an onion, and the closer you get to the core the more you cry:} Your observations are very insightful, although I am not sure that I fully understand what you mean by "It compensates for growth, but with discretion."

Does it mean that the perfect relationship actually would have no reason for existence, except to reveal an even higher ideal? Just as perfection can only exist in a static moment, before it has to make way for a higher perfection?

Sophia: That statement was coming from a place where you may want to have more than one relationship but you respect your other relationships so that you are not `rubbing this other relationship in their faces'. That's the discretion I'm talking about. I've been a monogamist so I'm exploring possibilities of what could be comfortable for people. But one thing I do know, it's very interesting being involved in a few people's lives that makes you feel whole. No one person can be your everything. This doesn't have to stem from sexual insecurity or social insecurity, but from the point of being free to be. I don't fool around on my partner, BUT if my partner was not HEARING what I needed, I would explore other avenues. Never would want to hurt her. So that keeps me one-on-one just with her intimately. But to me OUR conversations are intimate too. And I don't consider this cheating!

Now, I understand. What you say is so true. We are such complex creatures, that it is very unlikely that one person could reflect all of us. Is one short live enough to reveal of what we are capable of, all of what we are?

Sophia: Today's blog is going to deal with relationships with and without children. Just reading our back and forth on your blog has me wanting to talk about this.

I looked up monogamist in Zulu ... nothing. Then I tried Xhosa, the same. So what about Sotho - both North and South - all I got was lutho.

Then it dawned on me, from the beginning they practised polygamy. No need to gently explore a well beaten path, head to Africa, only one small circumcision ceremony necessary.

The bad news is that polyandry is a no no unless you want an orgy of violence. The good news is that children aren't an issue, unless it's a lack of them, then that's a curse.

Excuse the sarcasm, I'm not verkrampt, things just swung downhill from Living Love - Practical Spirituality. It seems to me the all the answers are in the title.

"African creation myths suggest that monogyny was the original practice not only among creator-gods, but also among the original humans."

Donavon, I am not sure what you are trying to say. Are you saying that since "free love" (is that why you use verkramp or are you a traditionalist?)came into existance things went down hill, as far as love relationships are concerned, or is it that you just do not agree with what I say in general. I will be interested to hear more.

Living love for me is the love of all life, in whatever form it appears, and practical spirituality is for me an exploration of the mysteries of live, not from a conditioned approach, but from an open mind, and applying it in my life. Not blind belief, but a belief based on a experience.

I will post an article on Polygamy in Africa.

Sophia, your original post was good and I enjoyed it. Re-reading my previous comment, it does come across like a mysterious a shot out of the dark, but I was taking an ironic poke of fun at the comments of Capt.

Following his train of thought from your original post to the comment where he talks about 'I've been a monogamist so I'm exploring possibilities of what could be comfortable for people ...' I just found that hilarious. It is the most subtle and guarded a suggestion I've yet to hear - you want to swing Capt? Come on out with it, a wink is as good as a nudge, know what I mean. That Capt wants to test such waters is neither here nor there to me. The irony I saw in it was this:

Polygamy has been part of traditional African cultures for eons. So, when reading the subtle and guarded comment, I thought ... yeah, and ... potential swinger had felt it necessity to justify something that has been formalised and part of a culture I grew up in. Move on. Interesting you say 'African creation myths suggest that monogyny was the original practice ...' I didn't know that: does it mean that Africa is moving a full circle on this issue with monogyny generally the norm these days?

But more importantly - in your original post, the discussion of love and humankind was preceded by the most beautiful of titles 'Living Love - Practical Spirituality' It was not only a statement, but an answer in itself. There are three aspects to love: physical, emotional and spiritual. The first two most adults can comprehend and accept. But without the third aspect, love will always be a compromise, in trouble or eventually just run out.

Monogamy is becoming the norm in Africa. Few can afford it. Less women will accept it. But it is still practised even by some prominent business men.

I do agree that there are three aspects to love. Is it possible to have a love relationship based only on emotional and spiritual? It seems that if a relationship is truly in balance it must have all three aspects or it cannot last. Thank you for your comment, I do appreciate it. (Where did you pick up on verkrampt? I am Afrikaans.)

I'm glad that the monogamy wheel is turning the full circle. There are many aspects to the patriarchal society that leave a lot to be desired.

Eintlik is ek in Joey's gebore en het gou gesien dat 'n Kaap se meisie die outeur van hiedie blog was ;-D Ek is nog steeds besig om die blog se ouer poste te lees - die plaas stories toe jy jonk was, is die beste :-} Baie dankie.

Of what you ask, the answer is ultimately yes. At the moment a lot of people are remembering the passing of a man who was able to demonstrate this spiritual energy very purely - the closest we can come to understanding it is to give it a name: love.

But while we're clothed in these physical bodies and operating through our emotions, we will experience this energy primarily through those facilities.

Nothing wrong with that ... except when we're taught that these are the only two parts to love and the rest is some mysterious god thing that comes from up there.

Nope, it's the other way around: The spiritual energy is the primary power and is within us; the physical and emotional are external tools that we use to express this energy in the various ways we live our lives.

Tot volgende keer, groete vir die Berg ne ;-}

Waar bly jy nou? Ek sal groete stuur. Verlang jy ooit? Eendag sal ek my meer oor my kinder stories skryf, my kinderdae was baie kleurvol:]

Do you see a difference between spiritual and soulful? I never used to make a distinction between the two, but then I had an experience which made me think differnt. Although I agree that physical and emotional are tools for our higher energies, I believe that they serve more of a function than just as tools. Through them the spirit and soul can be enriched. Certainly when it comes to a love relationship between a man and a woman, who both are in touch with their higher aspects, it can elevate both.

As above, so below.

Baie dankie - London - Velang ek? Elke dag, snot en trane ;( Well ... not quite so much anymore. I did try to return, but with affirmative action I was at the back of the job queue. It's taken a while, but I think I'm beginning to see a bigger picture and the opportunities the Universe is presenting. There's always a reason for these things.

Tell us about your experience with spiritual and soulful. I had an alternative religious upbringing (all good) and must admit, I don't see a difference coming from there - but you've raised my curiosity - pls tell ?-}

You're quite right, the physical and emotional are more than just tools, but I get irate when all the focus is put on these two with so little comprehension of the third ... and possibly I go overboard the other way.

Geniet die blog - nog steeds baie om te lees ... jy skryf baie ne :-P

Ha - I retract what I said about spiritual / soulful, that was last night and I was tired after a strange few days. Woke up to a still still morning with bright clear skies and something just popped into my head. I will write about today sometime, just need to develop this thought.

Die heimwee van my hart soek uiting in woorde. Soos twee geliefdes wat ryk na mekaar, so ryk my ongevormde gedagtes na woorde, vir vervulling.

I must say I have also experienced a few strange days. Last night I hardly slept, between awake and asleep thoughts, questions ...

Before I answer then I will wait to hear your thoughts.

All I can express about the experience is that I had a meeting with personal a part of me that was unfamiliar yet immensely old and familiar. This was not a 'spiritual' experience and all the books and degrees in the world faded into oblivion.

'Soos twee geliefdes ...' en dis net na n paar poste. Miskien is ek soos n bottel rooi wyn, hoe ouer, hoe beter :-D Maar om erenstig te wees, waarvandaan kom die gedagtes?

Kyk nou hoe laat jy my lag! Ek is bly om te sien dat jy nog nie die Suid Afrikaanse humor verloor het nie. Maar,ekskuus, soos ek gese het, ek was in 'n snaakse luim gister, ek het nie myself mooi helder gemaak nie. Jy het gese; "Jy skryf baie." Toe wonder ek, hoekom skryf ek? In die middel van die nag het ek wakker geword, en dit was my antwoord. Miskien behoort ek dit te vertaal, maar ja, dit is net nie dieselde in Engels nie.

A yearning in my heart reaches for words. As two lovers reaches towards each other, so my unformed thoughts, reaches to words for fulfillment.

Often I say to myself I am never going to write again, but it is just like saying I am never going to love again, you can't dam up what is inside you:]

To be more serious, I was going to mention too about the "Pale Male" challenge in the new South Africa. Things are changing, recently some ministers admitted that they were too hasty to get rid of the Pale Males, no one really gave much thought to the loss of experience. There were people who knew exactly for example where what pipe would be that needs replacing etc. We have experienced a lot of problems in that regard, and maybe you aware that we had some serious power failures. Anyway, there is a drive now to lure back those experienced Pale Males, but payment would never match that most receives overseas, so really it would be for most purely out of love for the country.But the debate continues.

O.K, the soul and spirit. When I was a child, I was introduced to what the Nascapi Indians call the million-year-old man, a kind of living council, that brings wisdom from our ancient roots, through my dreams. He literally appeared to be an ancient man in white, with long hair and beard, exactly how I would imagine the archetypal wise man. I have also heard it called the anagogue of souls (from the Greek 'guiding') Since then I have had many occasions to feel that ancient part of me, so much that I had to acknowledge that although all is one, there are distinctions. This is how I personally distinguish them;

The ego I perceive as my present conscious self-awareness. That part of me that makes the decisions between right and wrong, between the choices I face in life. It operates through a personal paradigm, and cognitive style. One's personality (persona – mask) is projected through the ego. The ego is what you believe yourself to be.

The spirit for me masculine in nature. It is the ascending part of us, the part of us that strives forward, the part that wants us to be free, and travel lightly. The spirit encourages uniqueness in us, and a desire for specialness, for distinction. For me it is a combination of the light fire-air element. The spirit is unemotional in nature. It calls for us to evolve. When I speak of Divine, I speak of something being spirit based.

The soul is feminine in Nature. It is the descending part of us. It strives for unity, wholeness, inclusiveness. It is the part that connects us with the past, our lineage, and genetic memory. (Yes, I know the concept of genetic memory is debatable, but I will go into that later.) The soul's elements are earth and water, hence the moist dark soils of the soul. When I speak of Sacred , I speak of something being soul-based.

Food for thought: "Matter is the vehicle for the manifestation of the soul on this plane of existence, and soul is the vehicle on a higher plane for the manifestation of spirit" Alice A. Bailey

"Often I say to myself I am never going to write again, but it is just like saying I am never going to love again, you can't dam up what is inside you:"

It makes my heart sing to read words like this Sophia, yes the ego is what you believe yourself to be and perhaps even more important how we sometimes transform ourselves into what we aspire to be.

I know what you mean about it being hard to sleep between the awake and dreaming questions of late, and all the elusive answers that seem so visible until we open our eyes.

Reviax, Perhaps it is the change of seasons, or the universal winds of change blowing, that has stirred up our psyches, some with soft and gentle nostalgia, some with blasts of dusts from the past that stings the eyes? Right now there seems to be more questions than answers.

I am so glad that some of my words made your heart sing.

Pale Male challenge - isn't that fantastic! There are a few websites promoting this, one being www.homecomingrevolution.co.za - nothing like a little revolution ;-} Right now I'm limbo for a number of reasons and although the heart yeans, it appears that the Universe has some adventures in store for me here ... but who knows what the Universe has in mind for tomorrow ...

Thanks for mentioning mention Alice A. Bailey, her books had lined my mother's bookshelf, but I haven't read them for years. I found the publishers site, www.lucistrust.org, and it's impressive, besides her books for sale there are audio discussions for free download ... :)

Of soul and spirit, Alice Bailey expresses my ideas more eloquently than I could have, but I must ask, the distinctions you give to spirit/soul, are they not of the soul, the yin/yang within each of us? Isn't the spirit a manifestation of the Great Spirit, the All? Or am I getting myself mixed up with words here?

From the tone of your posts, I just felt something, most probably influences from when you were young. That's why I was prompted to ask for more stories from your childhood - not only for the local and colloquial content - but also for the magical. Look, you've got Reviax singing - now that's beautiful !!

"Look, you've got Reviax singing - now that's beautiful !! " It is indeed.

"He smiled gently. 'Words can be potent magic indeed, but they can enslave us. We grasp from wyrd tiny puffs of wind and store them in our lungs as words. But we have not thereby captured a piece of reality, to be pored over and examined as if it were a glimpse of wyrd. We may as well mistake our fistfuls of air for wind itself, or a pitcher of water for the stream from which it was dipped. That is the way we are enslaved by our own power to name things." by Brian Bates: The way of Wyrd - Tales of an Anglo-Saxon Sorcerer.

I do so agree, although words can serve as a way of reaching out, it can enslave. Actually all is one and the same, like Yin and Yang, one is part of the other, and one can change into the other, one cannot exist without the contrast of the other. So, yes my description of soul and spirit do match that of Yin and Yang, as above so below, as within so without, not the highermost but innermost. Does the Great Spirit have a soul? If we are gods in embryonic form, then it must. If we evolve, then so must the Universal Mind. Perhaps we are the soul of the Great Spirit.

I have avoided writing about my magical experiences, because to me they were so intensely personal. Mmmm I'll think about that.